The Waging Peace Podcast

Small Acts Sparking Big Changes with Sharon McMahon

• Diana K. Oestreich • Season 2 • Episode 14

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Part two of our conversation with Sharon delves into the essential role of hope in effecting positive change and combating the perils of cynicism. 

After you listen, you’ll know:

  •  How to choose between hope and toxic positivity
  •  3 ways to take one small action to make Big Changes.
  • One powerful, underused tool you can start using immediately to kick cynicism to the curb.


About Sharon:
A #1 New York Times bestselling author, educator, and host of the chart-topping podcast Here’s Where It Gets Interesting. Sharon's newsletter, The Preamble, is one of the largest publications on Substack, where she provides historical context and non-partisan insights to help readers navigate today’s political landscape. 

IG: @sharonsaysso 

What do practitioners of peacemaking and change agents like Sharon and Diana think about:

• Exploring the distinction between hope and toxic positivity  
• Understanding cynicism and its impact on motivation 
• The significance of communal joy in fostering connections  
• The necessity of rest and boundaries in sustaining engagement 
• Emphasizing individual agency in the face of systemic challenges 
• Recognizing the power of committing to one's purpose 


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Diana Oestreich:

We were talking about hope and about how it's the linchpin. It's like the only thing that is going to allow us to continue to not just stay in our reflexive basic brain evolution that says anything is scary and different and fear tells us that we need to stay within our systems, within our groups and basically anything new. Our brain is going to yell at us that says don't do it. But hope is actually how we make positive change.

Sharon McMahon:

It's so true, because how can, if you don't have hope that something can change? How will it right? Like if you don't believe that you can ever ever accomplish something? Guess what? That is true. Whatever you believe about something turns out to be true most of the time. If you don't believe that you can do something, you're right. Right, because you will never try it.

Diana Oestreich:

In my work I was thinking about what you were saying about hope and I was like man my work is really centered around.

Diana Oestreich:

I call it waging peace because, as a former soldier and combat medic and now peace activist, I'm like, oh my gosh, war and peace they are the same coin, they are two sides of the same coin. And as often as we're talking about war, we have to be talking about peace, because that is when we're envisioning a possible future that we want to get to. And if we never, like you said, if we don't actually have hope, if we don't think about what we want, never going to happen. And so I was thinking about how Waging Peace authorizes a future that we don't yet see in the present moment. If we continue to see something that isn't here yet, it's motivating. It tells us we can achieve something. It tells see something that isn't here yet, it's motivating. It tells us we can achieve something. It tells us something that is possible, and I think that that is a linchpin to how there's so much division and also despair and mental health issues. So I think hope connects us to those things.

Sharon McMahon:

I think so too.

Sharon McMahon:

I mean, people too often think that hope equals optimism, that hope equals rose-colored glasses, that hope means that we are just putting the blinders on and we're engaged in toxic positivity just have hope.

Sharon McMahon:

It's that kind of this blind allegiance to optimism. But it's not. It's not. First of all, I would argue and this is backed up by research that people who have a sense of optimism actually do much better in life, by every measure, than people who approach life with a sense of doom, negativity and despair. And I think one of the reasons for that of course it's probably multifactorial, but one of the reasons for that is because when you have just a shred of optimism, when you believe that something is possible despite current evidence to the contrary, it gives you the opportunity to hope for something more. Versus, if you approach life with such a sense of cynicism, a sense of doom and despair, you are not able to look to the future and cast a vision for something that is better and that is shared and that can benefit all of us. So it's not toxic positivity to say that we have to have hope if we want anything to change. An attitude of complete cynicism doesn't lead us to a place we want to go.

Diana Oestreich:

And I think it's not even part of the recipes for the places that we look to. So I was in the military eight years. There's no cynicism there. We are committed to what we will do and we're not going to quit when we don't see it, and we're not going to quit when it's not on our doorstep. And I think, as a group, when we commit to something bigger than ourselves, you know the people next to you are all committed that we're not going to quit until we see the better, until we see the better. I think that that roots us in a really mentally healthy place and it's part of purpose.

Diana Oestreich:

And one of the writers I really look to is Viktor Frankl. He was a psychologist who also survived four different concentration camps, and what he says is we have to have this sense of hope and he calls it purpose. So we have to commit to a future, which I think is what hope is. We are committing to seeing, choosing and showing up for something. And when he came back, he had found out that all of his reasons for staying alive his wife and his child were killed and his parents, his reasons for staying alive, his wife and his child were killed and his parents, but he continued to live and work and make change for another 70 years and when he came to the US in the 70s he saw all of this depression and anxiety and he's like what is going on?

Diana Oestreich:

You know, he lived through the Holocaust. He had to re-find another reason to stay alive and to live. But he comes to the 70s in America and he's like oh my gosh, as a psychologist, this is epidemic and what he attributes it to is people not committing to a purpose. Cynicism will kill your purpose. Every other day, cynicism will tell you that it'll never work. Nobody cares and you can't do it. Cynicism will tell you that it'll never work. Nobody cares and you can't do it.

Sharon McMahon:

Cynicism is an excuse to quit. That's what it is. It's an excuse to quit, and most people quit when things get hard. They try until something's hard and then they quit.

Sharon McMahon:

Having a sense of hope allows you to keep going, even when things are hard. Things will be hard. It's not if it's when Things will be hard and if we do not approach those situations with the sense of I may not see it right now, but I have hope that I will see it on the other side of this hill. I may not see it right now, but I have hope in a better future, and the only way we will ever get there is if we keep working for it. If you are approaching it with a sense of cynicism, you will quit, you will quit, and I think that a lot of times, people who are like cynics that you can never talk them out of their cynicism they are looking for an excuse to quit something hard and it's an easy out of like. It'll never happen. Be realistic. You know that sense of cynicism is just an easy way to quit something.

Diana Oestreich:

Right, because all it does is it gives you validity to stop doing the work. That's right. Validity to stop doing the work, that's right. And the future generations need us to stop giving ourselves a pass to not do the work. So what are some ways that you are practicing hope or you are doing hope?

Sharon McMahon:

You know this is. I don't want to let anybody think that hope is an innate characteristic that either you're born with or you're not. It is true that some people have more sunny dispositions, naturally right, I don't know that I naturally have one of those dispositions. This requires effort on my part. So, to anybody who's listening, if it feels like, why is this so much work? That sounds accurate. You know what I mean. That sounds like you're doing it correctly.

Sharon McMahon:

So this is one of the things that I really, really I truly think this to myself on a daily basis that I refuse to be distracted from my important work, that my important work is and everybody has a different kind of important work Mine is not yours, and vice versa. I refuse to be distracted from my important work because the world, of course, does not want me to complete my important work. The world wants me to get mired down in cynicism. The world wants me to be like look over here, there's something terrible over there that's meant to distract you from your important work. But this is another thing that I think of If they can't stop you from doing it, meaning if they can't stop you from doing your important work, they will try to make it so that you don't enjoy it.

Sharon McMahon:

Ooh, that's good, and so often I'm like you know, if I feel like I just don't want to do this anymore, whatever it is, I don't want to write this thing. I don't want to do this. Whatever aspect of my important work is just feeling really daunting to me. I don't want to read another hate comment, I don't want to get another death threat. I don't want to. You know, whatever it is, I truly do repeat the mantra to myself that I refuse to let you suck the joy out of my important work, and I remind myself that there are people who want you to stop doing what it is that you're doing, and if they can't stop you, they will try to make it so you don't enjoy it and it's your job not to let them.

Diana Oestreich:

That's so good. I feel like I'm going to make a t-shirt for myself so that I can wear that, because one of the truest truths that is my purpose and my work, that is mine to do is to instigate joy, because there's something about our humanity and our dignity that isn't just about survival. I've been in a place of survival of where I didn't know if I'd make it till lunch or I'd have to watch or care for somebody who would not make it till lunch. But without having this joy, I feel like it diminishes us. Every human being alive deserves to not just survive what we're in, but also to experience joy, and I think joy is this connector that allows us.

Diana Oestreich:

Though we have different work and very different ideas, I think when we experience joy, it connects us to the humanity of our 8 billion family members. Every human being on earth is part of this family. It reminds us that we're more than the things that we hate and that there's more people who love the things that we love. I read something that said that 80% of when people are laughing in public, there was no joke told. It's a bonding moment. People laugh when they want to connect with each other. I was like man joy connects us.

Sharon McMahon:

It's so true. I totally agree with you and I think part of being able to continue doing your important work is to remind yourself that it is important to feel joy, to have laughter, to do things that bring you contentment. We look around the world and we see. It's so easy to point out the flaws. It's so easy to point out the situations we wish we could change. It's so easy to see the tragedies, of which there are many.

Sharon McMahon:

This is not diminishing the tragedy that anyone is experiencing in any way, but at the end of the day, the world is not better because you sat all day in a pit of doom and despair. The world is not safer, kinder, more peaceful because you refuse to experience contentment and joy and laughter, because you didn't enjoy your family, because you didn't have a nice meal with friends. Again, this is not saying bury your head in the sand, turn a blind eye, but it's a reminder that the world is not made better by you being angry all the time. That's not how we travel to this destination of a shared future. It's not by all of us feeling constant vitriol towards some situation or another group.

Diana Oestreich:

Right, and I think our kids need to see us practicing joy so that they know, as they've grown up, in this really topsy-turvy situation that we call the last five years, 10 years, I don't know they need to see us communally practicing joy, and last night was one of my favorite nights. All year we invite every single teacher over to our house for a teacher appreciation barbecue and bocce ball party.

Diana Oestreich:

So it started with his kindergarten teacher. And what does a kindergartner do when they have a friend over After dinner? He asked her what. He asked all his friends after they're like done. He's like hey, you want to go to my room and see my toys? Oh, yes, she kept a straight face and was like sure, and I was like oh my gosh.

Diana Oestreich:

But since that day, we've just added the next teacher and the next teacher. And is this solving world peace? Is this making our education system equal and unsegregated? And just Not at all. But what it is doing is creating an honor culture where we invite every teacher over and say you are priceless to our communities. What you do matters, you matter, and we want to throw you a little party to just say, on behalf of my kids and all the kids that you've invested in, here's your night, and it's a small thing, but it is the most joyful night, where the kindergarten teacher who taught my kids how to read is hobnobbing with their high school teacher and they're getting to see their work and their impact over time. And I think, yeah, their work and their impact over time.

Diana Oestreich:

And I think, yeah, it's not solving everything, but it is planting our feet in joy and that people matter and we're going to start to honor each other, because that's what we most need to build the futures.

Sharon McMahon:

That's so true. And imagine if each one of us committed to doing one thing like what you're describing. It could be having teachers over. It could be some other type of activity. If all of us did something small, that takes us a lot farther than, like, five of us trying to solve all the world's international conflicts.

Sharon McMahon:

Right Like it's very easy to discredit a small handful of people. Right Like it's very easy to discredit a small handful of people. It is really really difficult to to make an entire community's viewpoint and perspective and experience of joy. That's much more difficult to discredit. My small things don't matter. Who cares? The teachers are still underpaid. We still have very serious issues with systemic inequality in our educational systems. It didn't fix anything.

Sharon McMahon:

But what if all of us are meant to do something small instead of a handful of us trying to create some kind of revolution? It's not to say that we've never had one that was warranted, but you know what I'm saying? That we're not going to burn down America's educational system tomorrow. Let's be real. That's not happening. We're not lighting it all on fire.

Sharon McMahon:

So having hope to me looks like, in many ways, doing for one person what you wish you could do for all of them. Doing for one teacher or one group of teachers what you wish all teachers could experience. Doing for one person without a home, what you wish you could do for all the people who don't have one. Doing for one student in your child's school who doesn't have what they need to be successful in school. Doing for them what you wish you could do for every kid in America.

Sharon McMahon:

Right, it's too easy to get bogged down in there Like there's so much poverty in the world, there's so much poverty in the most developed country in the world. That just makes me angry and I just feel super mad about how unfair that is and you could spend your entire day railing against the machine. That makes you feel like nothing I ever do will matter. I can call Congress till I'm blue in the face and they're not gonna fix income inequality, and that might be true. But that doesn't mean that the one child that you help, or the five kids that you help, or the 100 kids that you help over the course of the next your lifetime, that doesn't mean that that is unimportant and that doesn't mean that, because you can't fix it all, that you shouldn't address something.

Diana Oestreich:

Yeah, that that is unimportant. And that doesn't mean that because you can't fix it all, that you shouldn't address something. Yeah, I think the most revolutionary act we can do right now and challenge each other to do is to contribute. Contribute instead of pull back. And that is the revolution where, whether that is, you pack two lunches because your kid needs one and there's always going to be another kid at school. So to contribute.

Diana Oestreich:

And I challenge people in Waging Peace to just do two things Show up, because that's all we can do. We only have our one person and whether that is to show up and then commit, because without commitment we aren't really rooting ourself in hope. So if we decide what is our one act and then we just commit to it maybe that's once a month you are going to weed the flower bed for your neighbor who can't do it, it doesn't matter. But I think making a commitment to show up is how we make the revolution. What if everybody just committed to one thing for the rest of their lifetime? Like I'm committed to showing up for my unhoused neighbors till I die, but what I do get to see because I show up once a month, I get to see families who are experiencing unhousedness and just crisis, but then we get to celebrate when they move into permanent housing.

Diana Oestreich:

And then we get to celebrate when our kids are graduating, because most things if we stay far away it will always look hopeless. We'll never get to celebrate that one person getting to have something really awesome happen to them.

Sharon McMahon:

Yeah, what if we all just make a commitment to contributing instead of criticizing Bing bing, bing, bing? Because it's so easy to just be like, oh okay, like, having a party, it's fixing anything. It's really easy to just think of things to criticize and sometimes it gets really easy to be like, okay, debra, what are you doing? You know what I mean. It gets really easy to just like zing back at them. But what if, instead of looking for things to criticize, we looked for ways to contribute? And this is the sort of the last thing I'll say about this, because I want to give people who are listening this permission that you have been given skills and talents and desires for a reason, diana. You're absolutely passionate about showing up for people who have experienced violence. You're committed to nonviolent work, committed to showing up for people who don't have homes, like whatever it is. Those are your passions for a reason. Those have been given to you for a reason your life experiences. You're in a temperament. Sometimes you can't even explain why something is meaningful to you. It just is, for whatever reason. For some of us, this is animal welfare. For some of us, this is teaching preschoolers. My mom volunteers to read to a woman at an assisted living facility who is a longtime teacher. She's now retired and she just needs somebody to read to her and she really, really loves it and enjoys it.

Sharon McMahon:

All of us have something that we are passionate about and good at, and those are the things that you are meant to contribute on. I am not meant to contribute on fixing cars for homeless veterans. That's not my skill, that's not my passion. I am not effective in that right, and that is okay. That's okay. We can't all do all the things. It is great that some of us are excellent teachers. It's great that some of us are excellent at providing healthcare. It's great that some of us love to read aloud. Take whatever it is that you are passionate about and that is placed on your heart and contribute on that thing. And that is how we will see massive cultural shift if we all commit to contributing instead of criticizing, in the way that we are gifted and in the way that we feel drawn to.

Diana Oestreich:

That's it, folks. That is waging peace in a nutshell is that we just show up with who we are and then we commit and we don't pull back our marbles when we don't like whoever is doing it. You know, if somebody is willing to read to school kids, if the principal changes and you don't like how they're running things, stay in and keep reading for those kids. I think too often we kind of like to get a little critical about well, I'm not going to keep doing this until it's. I can't support that new X, y, z and it's like no, the revolution is that we use our purpose and our talents and our desires and we commit to contributing, because that is what is going to show our neighbors, our friends, our country, our kids what citizenship looks like.

Diana Oestreich:

We got to contribute and I love how you said that, because that gives us permission to let go of the heavy stuff that's not ours to do and just say you know what? I'm really glad. I'm glad Sharon is talking to people on the internet about government. I don't want to field those questions. It gives us permission to let go of the things that are not ours to feel bad about, they're not ours to work on. We can support other folks doing it. That's right.

Sharon McMahon:

That's right, and it's important to remember that weight of the world does not rest solely on your shoulders, that all of the problems of the world are not yours alone to solve, that the expectation is not that you will fix everything, because that leads to analysis, paralysis, that leads to overwhelm, that leads to inaction, because you're like how can I possibly fix the world's issues related to fossil fuels? You know what I mean? Like how can I personally fix fossil fuels? That just seems like I can't possibly do all of that. But if you really, on your heart, is really to care about the environment, what if you contribute in your community in a way that you actually can contribute, instead of feeling like I need to fix China's overconsumption of coal? Do you know what I mean? How am I supposed to fix that? You cannot, and so, consequently, you do nothing instead of contributing in your community where you actually can make a difference.

Diana Oestreich:

I love that. And in wrapping up, what has been the most important thing for you when it comes to staying in your purpose, even when people try to suck your joy and make you hate it and distract you, because I think a lot of us, we know it, but oftentimes we've started and then something or somebody really, really crushed us or made it so hard to continue. So what has been the most important thing for you? To stay in and know your important work and stick to it when it gets really hard and you want to quit.

Sharon McMahon:

This might seem trite, but I really do believe in this that you have to learn how to rest and not quit that. You might just need a break. You just might need a little break from it, and that is normal and necessary for all humans, right? Taking a break. You just might need a little break from it, and that is normal and necessary for all humans, right? Taking a break from something it's normal and necessary. It might look like putting up a boundary around something like not allowing people who just created a new account on the internet to DM you, setting up your boundaries on social media. Or it might look like only saying yes to a few things a month instead of saying yes to everything every night, and so, consequently, your house is never clean and your kids never see you and you're not living a life that brings you contentment and joy. You're not serving your family in the way that you need to.

Sharon McMahon:

So it might look like setting up boundaries, but for me, it often looks like taking a break. Rest is something that all humans need, both biologically and also mentally. That's sometimes a tough one. For me, that is a challenging one. I'm naturally prone to wanting to just like do all the things all the time. That's my default state, and so taking a break it was really important, and it doesn't mean that you're weak if you take a little rest.

Diana Oestreich:

That is a good word, because the hustle culture feels very like oh my gosh. And for personalities like mine who do not thrive on the hustle, knowing how to contribute who I am and where I am, and not on somebody else's track, their playlist. Like I cannot keep up to most people's playlists, I'm like I will never want to lift someone else's nine to five, but knowing that it's okay to hold your purpose and make your work important and also rest, instead of saying, well, maybe I'm doing it wrong If I want to quit, maybe I'm doing it wrong. Well, sharon, thank you so much. Is there anything else you would love to add? Before we go out there, commit to our one thing and practice hope as a discipline.

Sharon McMahon:

Yeah, just don't be discouraged in your good work. History teaches us that important change is made by ordinary people who were not discouraged in doing good. So don't be discouraged in doing good, even if it feels like at the moment you're not seeing the revolutionary change that you want. It's important to remember that you must not be discouraged in doing good. Take a rest if you need to, but always get back in the game.

Diana Oestreich:

Well, sharon, thank you so much for bringing your encouragement. Thanks, dana, thank you so much for being here.

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