The Waging Peace Podcast
Introducing the Waging Peace Podcast, where Diana Oestreich dives headfirst into finding the unsung heroes of change, rebels against the status quo, and visionaries shaping a world that refuses to settle.
Discover your power, ignite your passion, and redefine what it means to wage peace and make a damn difference in this world.
Join the revolution as we learn how to transform our communities with justice, equality, and unwavering connection.
Are you ready to shake things up? Welcome to the edgier side of peacemaking.
The Waging Peace Podcast
How Gun Violence Changed her Mind and her Purpose: Rev Sharon Risher
Rev Sharon Risher shares her journey from the Emanuel Church shooting tragedy to leading the charge for gun reform and the end of the death penalty.
Discover her story of transformation on our latest podcast episode.
In this Episode learn:
- How being a gun violence victims family member changed her mind.
- How she found her purpose.
- What Women Leaders we should be supporting.
- Why taking action is how we find our hope.
- Ways we can Wage Peace instead of stay silent to end Gun Violence.
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Rev Sharon Risher is on the podcast today, friends, she is a daughter who lost her mother to gun violence and white supremacy. Dillon Roof murdered the pastor of Mother Emanuel Church after she welcomed him into her church, sat down and included him in their Bible study. That night that pastor was Sharon's mother and her story will change you forever. She has testified before Congress and is the leading voice that is breaking through the gun reform gridlock. As a murder victim family, she is shouting to abolish the death penalty. She is a peacemaker and a world changer that I am so honored to call a friend to. So you guys, I am so honored and excited to share my conversation with the wonderful Rev Sharon Risher. Welcome to the Waging Peace podcast, rev Sharon Risher. How are you?
Speaker 2:I am well. First of all, let me say thank you. I am humbled that you would want to hear what I have to say, but I'm humbled to be on your podcast with other women that have come before me that are doing things for the cause. I call it doing things for the kingdom, and we all have our spaces and lanes that we are in, because everybody has an opportunity to make change in their own little way.
Speaker 1:And you are doing it, and I filled in our listeners a little bit about who you are, but what I'd like to do is ask you the question that I think our whole country is stuck in right now. So today is the day after another shooting, another mass shooting, and in fact I think there's been more than one in the last 24 to 48 hours. And so the interesting one, you're just my hero, because you are living today and grief is a tough thing to live through and trauma can suffocate you, and so when I first met you, you were this vibrant person and I was like this doesn't make sense, but two, the other thing about you is that you had a before and you had an after, and I think a lot of people have their opinions on gun rights and gun reform and what's wrong with America, and I feel like you're somebody who had their life changed. And so can you tell me what was your idea or opinion on gun violence or nonviolence before your mother was taken from you?
Speaker 2:I was in a space where, working as a trauma chaplain on my job, I saw families and gunshot wounds and all of that, and that's when I really started to really kind of pay attention. But these weren't mass shootings, these were individual things, you know. But it was so hard and it started to get my attention. And when what happened in Emmanuel happened, then I knew it was like the bell going off, like this is something different, this is some real problems going on. And you know, soon after things okay, it happened in June, I think I ended up talking to Lucy McBeth, let's see, august, july, probably late July or August Just talking about what had happened and the things she was with and the things that they were doing. And then I was asked to come to DC.
Speaker 2:That time my foot was in a cache. I got all kinds of stuff going on. But anyway, from that point, when I got to Lafayette Park where we spoke and I'm already a preacher, I'm already nervous, I'm already I don't know what's going to come up my mouth I spoke and people were clapping and it was like ding, ding, ding, this is what you're supposed to be doing. You know, and that's how it started I really started to pay attention. So that tragedy is really what opened my eyes, realizing how gun violence was taking over, how white supremacy had started to be on the rise again. All of my eyes was open to so many things I didn't really give a deep spiritual thought about, just didn't think about it. I was doing my ministry, I'm just living this life that I wanted as a chaplain and worked so hard to achieve. So that's what opened, all of that open my eyes to what I needed to be doing.
Speaker 1:Because you had this before of your life. You were a chaplain. You were doing that and then when I met you, we ate lunch together and I heard you speak. I saw this person who your purpose. You were speaking out against gun violence and gun reform and abolishing the death penalty, which you and I both know. These are some of the most. They're straight up scary. When you wait into this conversation, I don't think it's where people are just debating apples and oranges, or should we fix the budget? When you wait into these, I feel in my bones as a veteran. There is violence humming underneath these things when you speak out about it. So I saw this woman who was speaking out on these very contentious and violent issues.
Speaker 2:My children would say because I didn't think about that. I'm telling you, I didn't think about there's some nuts out there that can kill me any minute. Because, god, why did you give me some of the heaviest issues to speak against this little old beachy girl? Chaplain, all of these things, all of this. And then here I am and I'm like whoa.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I really felt like I had the imposter syndrome because I couldn't believe that this was me out there doing this, just. I never thought about danger. All I knew was I'm going to show up where I'm supposed to show up. I'm going to say what God has put in my heart. I hope that my story can give somebody the courage to step up and do something. That's my whole thing about all of this that God has opened doors and places I've been and where I've been, and all of this. My thing is if one person could really understand that they too can do something in their own way, maybe not like me, maybe not like my experiences, but if we all come together, because we're more alike than not. So I'm just trying to follow Jesus for real.
Speaker 1:That's all I'm trying to do is follow Jesus, that's it and for people who are scared to change their mind about gun violence, because we know from the data that most Americans believe in owning guns and most Americans also believe that we need to register them and be accountable for them. And that's the thing.
Speaker 2:You know, there are people that I know that are registered. My son-in-law and I was like whoa he was like my original name and my daughter first started dating. I'm a registered gun carrier and I kind of know where you, you know from your daughter where you stand with that and I just want you to know. And I'm looking at him like whoa, but I felt like he was responsible. He registered. I never saw it. So, people, the right to have a gun is already there. There is no question. It's about how you use it, how you obtain it, how you store it.
Speaker 1:When you're not able to do these things, then people like me need to remind you why you need to, and your story and how you show up, I feel like, is connecting us to our conscience of you know what there's a problem and, for the good of us all, like women, women have always been showing up and they've always been picking up the pieces, healing things that happen, but they don't often get listened to, they definitely don't get to be the leaders that are leading us in the solutions. And so how do you feel or how have you seen women really be the ones that are making changes, for making our schools safer, for getting through the gridlock of gun reform?
Speaker 2:It started off okay, not everybody's religious or whatever, and I do have a low theological degree but it started at the tomb. Here I'm saying it's there. Women has always been there to make things happen. Sometimes we did it right, sometimes we didn't, but Jesus knew, he knew who to reach out to and who was going to be sincere and who was going to believe what he said and accept the redemption. You know, I want to read this. I tell folks often that if I had to pin my theology on just one theological claim, it would be that I have a resurrection theology. I believe God is in the re-business. The re-business mean that God is reclaiming and resurrecting and renewing and rebuilding and restoring, reconciling, renaming all of these things that women continue to do with themselves with faith. So we have always been there. We are the mothers of men and women that have always been there. To put that out there, you know Fannie Lee Hamer. I mean you know, hey, it's so many. You know on and on and on all these women.
Speaker 2:I wanted to be Angela Davis. I thought she was the coolest chick in the world. She was, you hear me. I wanted to be hey, I was trying to be a black hippie. I couldn't get an afro because my hair was too curly and that, oh my God. So you know, barbara Jordan, these are the people that I looked up to doing my time, and just women. We're going to continue to do it. You know, shannon Watts started, 10 years ago, mom's demand action that grew into the biggest advocacy group, a group of people that took me in the fold, of people that helped me not fall apart in those early days, kept me moving and moving that I did grieve, but I had people around me to catch me. You know, women.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and would you say that mom's demand, that that is one of the groups that convinced you, or that you keep seeing add more women, because the thing about moms are moms universally care about all the children, like I think that's kind of what should make you know. That's like the mothering idea is that we're going to raise up and protect and invest and value all our children.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, after Sandy Hook happened, that's when Shannon Watts started mom's demand action, you know. You know volunteers, you know every town for gun safety. You know my Bloomberg do lots and lots of money because he understood that this gun violence thing was really a public health crisis and somebody had to be the one. So you know kudos for Bloomberg for doing that, giving up the seed money to start that, that very important organization and to have chapters all over the country. You know, now you know it's just much more than just mom's. Plenty men, you know, are in moms demand because it's about the advocacy group, it's about getting out there state, local, federal. You know moms are out there advocate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and moms I have two kids at home and I remember the first time that it could have been after Sandy Hook, but it was after one of the shootings and I went to their school this is their elementary school and that was when we were doing the national school walkout. We're going to go outside for 17 minutes to memorialize the 17 kids who were killed in that school shooting and I remember being like this is different than when I was a kid. Like I am pulling my kids out of their elementary school. We're standing outside with balloons for each victim and sidewalk chalking. You know like you know schools and not guns, and I want to go to school and feel safe and I think, because moms know how this is impacting our kids, we can't not do anything.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know, because we know that if we don't do something now, this is what our kids are going to grow up to have Like this, is it?
Speaker 2:I know what my two little young grand babies they're what. Three and two. You know the thought. You know I mean I'm going to be real to not put them in public school, that God has opened doors where they don't have to go to public school, because I'm quite sure that their parents will, but if not granny's right here, we'll pay some to it. You know what I mean. I would have my children went to public schools. You know they're 42 and 43 and they didn't go to school with that kind of fear.
Speaker 2:You know Colin Vine happened when they were in school because my daughter got in trouble for running their mouth. She got mad at a teacher and said something stupid Like that's why those people. Anyway, she said something stupid. They were getting ready to expound my child. Lord have mercy, I had to, really to all men. But so Colin Vine was my kids first taste of, you know, a school shooting. But that wouldn't. That was like out of the norm. Now you have to, as a parent, you have to make decisions about if you're going to let your child go to public school?
Speaker 1:Well, and I won't even say it's, you know, it's not public school, it's just schools, because there's a question school in Tennessee.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, because it happened to the school in Nashville. I'm very sorry about that and let me tell you, let me know, I'm going to go there now. Oh, they put a lot of work in getting things laws trying to get changed real quick. After that happened to the governor of Presbyterian schools, they didn't linger. Now I'm not the one to gossip, but we just wonder in the grand scheme of things, how that was able to be moved along and people got right on board real, real quick?
Speaker 1:Well, because there's this. I mean, this is just my opinion, but I think we have this American mentality of violence and that we can always buy ourselves out of any problems. If you just have enough money, then your kid won't experience any of the isms. And that is such a cheap lie, Like to think that we're not in the same boat and to think that we can always just take ourselves out of this situation. I feel like it disconnects us and it takes away our power from changing the whole. But another thing that you advocate for and you show up for that I think not a lot of people know about is abolishing the death penalty. So can you tell me, like how that ever happened? Like how in the world? I tell you?
Speaker 2:I'm telling you this thing, I'm telling you that that that occurrence, I'm telling you, when I say it turned my life upside down. It's like Lord, why did you, why did I have to go through the hard stuff? Because, real early in the uh charges and call, we knew that they were out there. You know all the people with the federal government. They talked to each one of us. How do you feel about the death penalty and all of this? And and that's when I really started to think about wait a minute, what do I really think about the death penalty? Because I didn't really think about it. I'm kind of like everybody else. If you hurt old people and children you know what I mean Then you deserve to die, because who would want to hurt a child in an old person? But that was my general understanding. And then this thing happened and I started to read about the death penalty. See, that's what happened.
Speaker 2:When you get educated, you go looking and reading up on stuff to say, hey, let me expand my brains here. And I started reading and then I read out and then I got a little bit disproportionately put on death role, you know, and here we go with my faith. Here goes sneaky Jesus and this is a Helen Porridge and say I heard her talking. She said sneaky Jesus and I've been using that ever said sneaky Jesus is like Sharon, I'm just going on and you believe that I'm? I got the last word and everything.
Speaker 2:Don't try to limit my power, because the same way I gave you grace, I started to see Dylan Roof as a damn person, not the monster to kill my mama, and everybody was humanizing him. To me, sneaky Jesus. So then I'm praying and asking and I realized it was no way that I could believe that he should be killed, because I want them really every night. They don't have Bible study with him every night. So you're going to live for however long you live for, and they're going to be killed in the same way they look when you walked in that church. They're going to make you have Bible study. They go, their ghosts, their spirits, going to be with you every night. Bro, I want that for you. That, yeah, that's what I want for you. So killing you? I can't get that. There's no need to kill a person because for me and my faith, god could redeem and restore anybody just because he's monsters. God love monsters too, you know, man and Reverend Sharon, that's just like.
Speaker 1:It always gives me this, like electric, just like hitting the chest, because when you hear the truth, no matter how hard it is, it's like man, the truth is, the truth is the truth, and I don't like it that you can never get back, like what's taken is taken and a pain of the pain. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But, you.
Speaker 1:So it's how you use that and see.
Speaker 2:That's the thing. You know, people want to wallow, and woe is me. And just understand, you're not the only one. Everybody got something going on. But if we come together, if we come together, we can stop trying to be so apart and do something for the betterment of everybody, and I think we can do some things. We can have that beloved community that Dr King dreamed of. And you know I'm a dreamer. I have to be a dreamer to be involved with all this stuff, you know, because dealing with the death penalty, that's hard work. These people are being so hard to do. But who gives, nobody should have the right to take somebody else's life.
Speaker 1:That's just, and even as a reverend, because my my Christian tradition, it's super clear that Jesus is like no more as an eye for the eye. Like he disarmed Peter, he told everybody like that is the worldly way, but it's not for you, so no more. So how is it that you know like up to 85% of the population is identified as like 85% Christian. So you've got 85% of a country who is following. You know a Jesus who says like do not kill, no more Can you take an eye for an eye, you know, lay down your weapon, beat your guns into plowshares, study war, no more. So how is it that a whole country still didn't or won't or won't take an eye? For a moment I uh, my moment I had, I accepted killing.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I think America, america itself, has been doing raunchy, violent things from the beginning. America has run with the word, just ran over any group of people that had what they wanted. Violence has always been a part of of of the world.
Speaker 1:but is how this violence you know normally, you know humans, yeah, but when we have come out of a, a, a a systematic way of saying we have the majority, we hold the power, this is what we want and we're going to take it and if we have the majority of the world, that this is the world view that we have been handed, and we told this like we've been handed this that says that it is a virtue to kill for your country, that it's a virtue these are like good character, qualities of like good Christian folks or even just good Americans is to always be willing to kill. And so I think we forget, like if we're not willing to give a chance to think about it, or if we're not even told that there is an invitation to do good and to choose to do no harm.
Speaker 1:How is it a choice if we don't even know there's two options? And I think with your work, with the death penalty and for a lot of people it's the first time they've ever even heard the idea, just even the first time they've ever heard the idea of just being able to execute people, but people just nowadays just seem to have this hard, hard vengeance that they need to be Um we uh paid back.
Speaker 2:You know they need to be paid for what they've gone through or something, and just it just to be kind, or to accept kindness, or to discern what kindness really is.
Speaker 1:You know there's none of that and for you, for you as a murder victim family, to say I know right, it isn't going to heal you.
Speaker 2:I know it is the best, and people say that to me too, and that's one of the things. When I joined this organization they were like you know, your testimony is out through the roof because here you are, a family member saying you don't want him to die, and people have asked me that and looked at me like they wanted to spit in my face, never did, but just can't understand. And I try to tell them. You know what I don't understand either? Ask Jesus. But that's what changed me. So I had you know. All I know is what I know, and if a wooden dilling roof, like I said, you can't pick and choose, you just can't. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I read an article that you wrote and you said this really like, like hit home thing and you said that the healing was never going to come for you from having the death penalty. You were like this is not. This is not going to give me back what I desperately want. This is going to give my mom back, this is going to give back my peace. And you had said something that a lot of people who haven't been through the justice system don't know that every time the next part of the case comes up, every time the appeal comes up that the family, you said for you it would just be reopening the wound, it would not allow you to heal, it would not help you heal, it would actually be harder on you to keep having this come back at you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I don't think people realize that Because, like I said, they're looking through eyes of humans and vengeance and what they believe and how they have interpreted things. Now they got off track. Asked me again. I didn't forgot, just that quick.
Speaker 1:No, we're just wrapping up, but I was so excited for people to hear your story, because we don't get a chance to hear about people who have experienced harm, violence, horrible things and are the ones who are challenging us and leading us to do some good in this world To say, put down the weapon, put down the gun, put down the capital punishment.
Speaker 2:The nitric. You know Alabama they just executed the guy and so states are pushing to be able to do this. You know South Carolina has got the firing squad. It's the world and people, just people. You're never going to get over what it is. You never are. But if you stop with the death penalty, you know that they're going to be in jail forever. They will die there. That's the end of that. Like you said, you know the appeals, the appeals every time it happens. It's happened. I've been asked to speak to some of the Buffalo people about the death penalty, another case where the death penalty and I said you know it, just the death penalty. All in all, you're always going to have this. You're always going to have it.
Speaker 1:And I started, you know, when I became a peacemaker and laid down my right to violence. Then all of a sudden I could see a lot of things I couldn't see. I could see all this stuff in gun violence. I could see, you know, the death penalty. I'm like I think that killing and death is the problem and it can like it's never going to be the solution. And so I started writing to a guy in death row on Alabama and I knew the very first time that he wrote me that we were around the same age, because he wrote in cursive and nobody learns cursive in school anymore.
Speaker 2:Like it's kind of like this dying art.
Speaker 1:My kids can't read notes that I write them if I write it in cursive. So we found out we're the same age, we've got kids around the same age, we're like going through the same stuff with our kids and so I think people don't. I didn't realize that, yes, some people on death row have done horrible things. They believe in killing and also most people I know all believe in killing in the right circumstance. But they also have kids.
Speaker 1:And so the death penalty creates more orphans more trauma and like, for kids who did not do any of this, I'm like, how can we say as a country that we're going to take away their one living parent? You know, like that is saddling a kid with something. And so I think that, yeah, like he's done, he absolutely regrets that moment, that he pulled that trigger, that moment, and his kids regret it. But now my kids know that there is somebody just like them who is on death row. And I think, as a country, that there are citizens there are ours to love. Like justice needs to happen, for sure, you know, but how we treat people, that has a lot more to do with who we are and our morals and our integrity and our character that our kids are watching. And so every time there's an execution, like we call, we write, I'm like, if I can just ask for mercy for one life and they'll still be in prison for the rest of the day. They will never get Right.
Speaker 2:And that's death. That's death. You know there were in their cells 23, 24 hours, all of that. If they're going to put them in there, let them be in regular. Why separate them? You know what I mean. If you, if you're going to kill them, let them go in regular population. Why they are already being tortured. They're already for years and so, anyway, that's just me.
Speaker 1:Well yeah wrapping up. Thank you so much for being here with us, reverend Sharon. Hopefully I'll get to see you soon. We get to do a lot of things together, but I have. I have three wrap up fun questions for you.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And there's no wrong answer, so all right, good. How old were you when you knew your purpose?
Speaker 2:You know what?
Speaker 1:Tell me.
Speaker 2:I was nine years old when I heard Dr Martin Luther King speak and I knew then that I wanted to be a speaker. I knew that I, yeah. And so I was always one of those kids, you know, back in the day, on the report card to teach you would write you know, beautiful student can't keep her mouth shut. I was one of those people's, you know I always had something to say about something and I made sure that I studied till I know what I was saying was good, but anyway. So then I knew then that I wanted to be a speaker, I wanted to be in politics, I wanted to be a lawyer, all of these things in my mom, yeah, yeah that's awesome.
Speaker 1:All right, number two how do you play? You do really serious things. So when you're just trying to unwind, like how do you play right now?
Speaker 2:My, my son says that I stay in the house too much. But you know I I have I made Indoor plant person. I have plants all over my house and On my patio and that's how I relax. And you know I walk my dog and I listen to music. And you know I'm a habit of sports Golden State Warriors, steph Curry that's my boy, you know. Dallas Cowboys, carolina Panthers.
Speaker 2:So, these are things that I do and and and that you know helps in so many hours in a day. So, you know, usually I fall asleep with TV watching me and and my grandbabies too, my grandbabies, I, you know. It's a whole nother ball game with them running around to see this young life and Looking, you know, be like wow, I want, I wish mama could have seen this, you know that's the thing.
Speaker 1:So in my favorite question, what is bringing you joy right now? And it can be serious, or it can be just super silly puppies or ponies Like what's bringing you joy right now?
Speaker 2:What's bringing me joy? What's bringing me joy is that I could do what I want when I want, how I want. That's what brings me joy Really. You know, jill Scott said I'm living my life like is golden. Well, I am trying real hard To live my life like is golden. I will be 60, 60 years old in July and I just thank God for a portion. I'm sound like a Baptist preacher now, thanking God for a portion of my health and in my that I could think in my right mind and all of these things. So that's what bring me joy to be able to be alive and and to try to live the best life I could, and you know, not just to be nice to people, but to be kind. When you be kind, there is no reciprocal nothing, you're just doing it. So I just want to be kind and Reverend Sharon.
Speaker 1:You are a gift. I think you are putting your kindness on the planet. You got your joy. And if anybody gets to meet you in person, like they are gonna yuck it up because you are funny and joy around. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.
