The Waging Peace Podcast
Introducing the Waging Peace Podcast, where Diana Oestreich dives headfirst into finding the unsung heroes of change, rebels against the status quo, and visionaries shaping a world that refuses to settle.
Discover your power, ignite your passion, and redefine what it means to wage peace and make a damn difference in this world.
Join the revolution as we learn how to transform our communities with justice, equality, and unwavering connection.
Are you ready to shake things up? Welcome to the edgier side of peacemaking.
The Waging Peace Podcast
The Audacious Art of Nikkolas Smith: The Superpower of Artivism and Change
How does a Black man from Texas, educated at the famous HBCU Hampton University land in California to work as an Imagineer for Disney for 11 years make a portrait of George Floyd that crosses the continent and unites the world in grieving and raising our voices for justice? His story is stunning.
- Can all of us..and I mean all of us be an Artivist?
- How do we start supporting Artivism in our kids and Artist in our community?
“Whatever you are making or doing Sprinkle a little activism on it. You just gotta do it!"
Simple as that.”
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All right, nicholas Smith, welcome. Welcome to the podcast. How are you?
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:How. I don't know if everybody knows, but your book is just here and you're hugging it like a little baby in your arms.
Speaker 2:I am how do you feel? I feel amazing. It's been, it's been a long time coming and it's, it's. I feel like it's been 10 years because of my my Sunday sketches, you know, this year being 10 years, so it's, I feel like it's been a long time. I'm very excited, glad it's out in the world and I've heard some amazing feedback and you know people are really enjoying it and it's doing what it's supposed to do.
Speaker 1:And what you know as what was your greatest hope as a dad, as an artist. You know, like, what is your greatest hope for this book.
Speaker 2:I think I feel like it is Kind of that, that just that whole idea of, of artivism in general, which is like it's trying to inspire everybody to make a positive change, yes, but like the end result of that is like we're we're actually living in a world that I would want my three year old to live, to be living in when he's, when he's growing up and like you know, things are actually more just and fair and you know the, the planet's being taken care of and you know, everything is kind of working as a kind of like. There's this, this final spread of the book where kind of like the, the final murals, kind of like things are kind of being put back together, piece back together in a way that seems a little bit more whole. So that's that's really the goal, that's that's the plan.
Speaker 1:I can't help it, but when you, when you're describing your book, I'm a mother of a 15 year old stunning black boy and a 16 year old white boy, and we just sent them back to school and what you said about so wanting to have our children have a world that's put back together, that is worthy of them.
Speaker 1:I feel like that is the cord and that's the thread, and that is what. I don't care who you are, this is for you and this is for us, and I feel like your book one super wildly beautiful, like if you see one of the pages, you will never forget it, never forget that page, that moment, that feeling, and I think it catapults us into believing that we can, that our world can be put back together, which is what waging pieces for me.
Speaker 1:I was a soldier, so I learned how to wage war, which is destruction, and I believe that we can on make the violence and inequalities that we see is going to take something bigger, an emotion that's bigger than violence or fear or hate. But I've seen it in action and I feel like that's that's the heartbeat of your book, and so I just want to dive right in. And you say that this is your most personal work yet and so I want to start there and center you.
Speaker 1:So, when you walk into a room, what are the invisible life experiences that you have that shape your art and how you see the world?
Speaker 2:I feel like I feel like every, any, any place I go to, any, any environment that I've in. There's all of my. My upbringing is like kind of shaping that and also you know, you know from. You know from elementary school all the way to college like and even even beyond that. You know I grew up in Texas in the South black kid in the South. I I had a lot of you know interesting experiences. You know, just just even being in the school system where you are you know taught about certain quote unquote heroes and you're shown if you're a black kid, typically you're shown what racism is and hate and a lot of those things are you know just kind of instilled from from a young age. And so going from that to you know predominantly wide schools in Texas, then going to an HBCU in Virginia, hampton University, just like that, understanding all these these different groups of people in America and then understanding how you know my people ended up here and then beyond that, being able to I illustrated the 1619 project Born on the Water and being able to illustrate like how all of that visualize how you know my people got here.
Speaker 2:It's just interesting to see all these different groups of people throughout my life and I carry all of that with me and in everything that I do.
Speaker 2:But the interesting thing is, when I got to California, I was a theme park designer for 11 years after college and seeing, seeing even more different groups of people than I was I was ever used to seeing, I had to unlearn a lot of things that I learned growing up in a, you know, you know, very religious place and very religious household.
Speaker 2:You know, I unlearned a lot, and to my benefit, I think, and really started to what I call like, meet not like you people. Like I have this piece that says meet as many not like you people as you possibly can and that, you know, just getting an idea of how wide you know, of a scope of all of humanity, is that. I think that will change everybody's perspective, you know. And so I kind of like I carry all of that with me and I it informs everything that I do and it really informs all of my artwork now, just really trying to, for one, like put people in the shoes of some, in the shoes of someone else that you might not know or have lived with or around you know, and yeah, that's that's kind of how? That? How I see the world now.
Speaker 1:And what were just one or two things that you did unlearn.
Speaker 2:I feel like there's kind of a power of specifics, so if there is something that you would like to share, Um, I would say just the, just the idea of like you know, I guess in terms of religion I mean, there's a lot there that I did have to learn, but I think it all has to do with being solely around people who are like you. It's, like I said, like getting to know, not like you people. The opposite of that would be only stay around the people that are exactly like you, Because in religious circles that's how you are taught, and don't don't let people who are not like you infiltrate your mind.
Speaker 2:And you know, it's just like that. It's kind of scary when there's people who are very siloed and closed off, like that, like you can do crazy things, you know, and until you start to see that there's people on the other side of the world who have no idea why you have this, like this system of beliefs, and they have their own system of beliefs and but they're also beautiful people and wonderful people, and even not on the other side of the world, but like across the border, like just you know, a couple miles away, who are amazing people just like you, you know. And so it's like that was. I feel like that was probably the biggest thing, just like breaking that, I agree.
Speaker 2:And not being afraid, just not being afraid of there's. There's so much fear connected to it and it's like don't, don't be afraid of like other people.
Speaker 2:And I think, when we like yes, I was gonna say in the book there's this, there's this like part where there's this, this monster of like all the broken bones, all the things that aren't working right in the world, and there's like a wall and it says that us versus them like just that concept of us versus them is is pushed on a lot of people, especially in America, and it's like we gotta, we gotta break that.
Speaker 1:Reach it, nicholas, because that awesome versus them. I feel like we're raised in it and given to it and by people that love us and want good things for us. So if we are going to replace that us versus them with everybody's in our jurisdiction to love and to care for and we are team humanity of eight billion people that all matter I think we have to replace it with something else, and I think your book does that with the art and with the ideas. And also I'm a big believer that adults will do better for their kids. So if you read, you might read a book to your child and the biggest change that happens is in you. And so I think it's this beautiful thing that we're willing to reimagine the world for our kids, even if it pushes on some of our buttons. So I am grateful that you put that in your book.
Speaker 1:For us, you are a concept artist, an author and an activist, but more than that, I see you challenging injustice and indifference by refusing to accept racism and police brutality quietly. Your art is a blow horn. It wakes us up to beauty and loss. You help us grieve the loss of life collectively and see the humanity that requires us to make change because joy is our birthright. Your book asks us do we believe art has the power to heal? How have you experienced healing through art?
Speaker 2:Well, this whole journey of Sunday sketches, which has now been 10 years, it started as artist therapy. I mean, I was 10 years ago. I was going through a divorce. It was like one of the hardest times of my life and I wanted to just like pack everything up and move back to Texas and all that stuff. And one of my friends encouraged me to just like keep making art, just like make art through it, and it was really artist therapy.
Speaker 2:Like, all of this started as artist therapy and just putting some sort of pen or paintbrush to paper or digital pen. I was literally like learning digital painting and Photoshop and that's how this all started for me and it really just became that process of like trying to trying to heal through just making art. But then it turned into making art about what was broken in the world. And then, you know, I call these things kept happening. Trayvon Martin's killer was found not guilty, and there's a hoodie movement and I made the piece of Martin Luther King Jr in a hoodie and when that went viral and I ended up talking about it on CNN and that was like the weekend that Black Lives Matter movement began, which was 10 years ago, and so that was the time where it's like okay, like if you're an artist and you care about the world, you are now an artivist, like you have to, like there's too many things happening where you couldn't just like be silent or just make art about anything Like it was just like you know, this is your moment to be an artivist.
Speaker 2:And there was a healing in all of that. And then people started to tell me like your art is helping me heal. It's helping me, you know, cry or smile or get through this trauma just by seeing your art. And a lot of times people don't know exactly what to say, so they'll just share the artwork or even just looking at the artwork and just, you know, sitting with it for a little bit. So it became this whole like artist therapy kind of movement, which is what it started with for me, and that was just that in itself was healing. So it was a whole different type of healing to begin with, and then it became like too many traumas happening back to back to back in the world that we have to figure out how to heal from.
Speaker 1:The genius thing about. I was talking to somebody and I was like what is it about Nicholas Smith's portraits? Because when George Floyd was murdered and it was in my home state, minnesota, minneapolis the portrait you did of him echoed around the world. It wasn't just in Minneapolis and it wasn't only for the black community, it went everywhere. And I don't know because so much of art is undescribable.
Speaker 1:But when you painted George's face and it went around the world and across the country and in communities and people kept putting it in the air. I feel like it was like after a storm, where it's the darkest, most destructive summer storm, and you look in the sky and there's this rainbow, that in a moment you saw the beauty of someone most of us had never met and we also felt the loss of his life, and so when people shared that portrait, I felt like it was this linking arms that said no more. This was this. Life was lost, but you took it from all of us and we're going to demand justice for him and everyone else and I. That's the power. I think you put this humanity in a picture that allows people to step into the story. Thank you, I just got to show you that right here. Sorry, podcast friends, you can't see this, but this was given to me by a friend in Iraq.
Speaker 1:Wow and a refugee in Iraq did this incredible embroidery of George Floyd and my friend sent it to me from Iraq because people everywhere saw themselves. When you see your government taking a life from a citizen like that is a universal thread that everybody wanted to step into that story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I try to just show, like the like I said, the humanity and people in these portraits, and usually they're looking at you in the face, like they're staring at you and they're asking a lot of questions in that stare. You know why was my life taken? Why? Why did somebody feel like my life wasn't important? And I think there's just so much that you can, you can get from looking at somebody in the eyes, even even if it's a painting, you know, and so I just wanted to kind of do that and you know also I put him in it. I had just done one of a Mod Arbery in a tux and I wanted to put George Floyd in the tux as well, partially because it's a lot of times in the black community we talk about like a celebration of life rather than a funeral and celebration of life, and just to show him in a different way that he was, you know, had been typically portrayed, and I don't know. There's just something that people seem to gravitate when they see like these portraits of you know, people looking at you, it's almost like you have to face. You do have to face them as people and face their humanity and it's I don't know, it's a beautiful thing. It also was very helpful that Michelle Obama retweeted it. She well, she shared the three portraits of George Floyd and Montabre and Brown of Taylor, and that was that was unbelievable. And to see that kind of support and, again, just like you know, people just willing to to share the humanity of other people, especially, you know, lives that are lost, and that's because that's such a big part of my, my work, like it had to be, kind of like I felt like it had to be the anchor of the book, the art of it.
Speaker 2:And there's a, there's a young boy who was, you know, his life was taken due to police brutality, and you know, these are things that I'd never thought that I would be putting in picture books, but it's like it's important and you know it's I have to show this stuff. And there's, you know, you'll see, you'll see this kid. His name is Jay. You'll see him throughout the book in different ways, even on the on the TV, like in the little, there's a little ticker on whatever news channels on TV, you'll see his, his name, kind of in the headlines and the mural at the end. And on the on the, you know, on the signs in the police protest, you'll see. You know, jay's life mattered, and the and the book is a representation of all of those portraits that I've done.
Speaker 1:I think it's important that we get to see that representation, and not only for for the Black community, but also for all of these kids who their families are not facing this reality and their families are not. They don't get served racism at their school from kindergarten on up, and so for them to start seeing the stories that other people are living in connects us to the empathy that I think kids are bent. They're made for this. If we give them a story, they want to be in a good story and they really do want to be the heroes, and heroes do good. They make positive change. Heroes we understand heroes and villains, and villains are the ones who take lives. They're not the ones who protect them. You are a dad raising a son of color. How can all of us raising kids encourage them to find their unique power as an artivist?
Speaker 2:I would say, you know, it helps just to to listen to your kids. The kids have this ability to like I would say like, come up with limitless solutions on how to fix things, but a lot of times kids aren't, aren't listened to really, like it's kind of like, oh, that's cute, but it's like no, really listen to what they're saying, like there's a solution there, and the crazy thing it's like a lot of times it is like so simple, but it's like why can't we do it? Like as adults, like why can't we just implement this very simple solution? And so I would just say, like, encourage your kids there. You know, every kid is an artist, every adult is creative, even if you stop making art. You know every, I say everybody has the ability to make art and so everybody can be an artivist.
Speaker 2:But especially like the young folks, like they are just, they're just, they don't. A lot of times they don't have that fear yet of, like you know, not wanting, not wanting people that to see their art and be criticized. It starts to happen very young. But, like you know, there's, there's still, you know, so many young people who are just fearlessly just creating and we have to amplify those, those pieces of art, those stories, those songs, all those things that are being created and maybe, just like you know, put it out there for the world to see in some some sort of way, because all the solutions are there. We just have to like, we have to listen to them.
Speaker 1:And for somebody who is a budding artist and activist or is starting to hear that they can make a change with who they are and what they make. What do you think is the most powerful way to encourage young artivists, whether they're in our house, in our neighborhoods, in our schools or online? Even like, what do artivists need to hear to give them more courage?
Speaker 2:Um, I think, I think they need to hear that there are, that that people believe in their art, like we believe in your art, basically, but not like, not just like to hear that phrase, but like to really feel that idea. Like we believe in your art means that this thing that you just created, okay, what is the message of that? What is what is the message of that? And then once you, once you actually see what these young folks are creating, okay, how can we get behind that? What can we, what can we do to help, you know, like, really advance that message. That's that's really what like believing in somebody's art means.
Speaker 2:That's that's the whole thing of like believing in love, like believing in, you know, in the book it says like, you know, love is a verb, is a huge theme of the book. You know, and so like, if you really, you really believe in love, then you will, you know, get up and do something. You'll, you'll make an actual choice to do that thing, that you, that you see, that you might say you got to do that thing, and so like, if, if you believe in the art of wisdom and the artwork, you got to get behind it and do something, and that that really starts to change things. Like even you'll see, like people you know will you know put their name on petitions and and even just that simple act of signing a petition like it's like as it grows and grows and grows, like it can actually start to change. You know laws and how, how things are put into effect in the justice system and so you know it takes. It takes like a little bit, but it's if everybody's doing it, then it will really change them things.
Speaker 1:That's really beautiful. You are creating a bridge for people, from the headlines they read in the news to the humanity that connects our well being to each other, and this was put on full display when my home state of Minnesota was reeling after the murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis. The portrait that you created make connections between people across communities, our country and around the world to link arms together for George. People mourn together and held up that portrait to demand justice. When I look for people activating justice and instigating joy, that was a moment when I saw it in action, with art and activism and connecting us, and you were doing it. That's when I first heard your name was when it was coming around and you've said if I can grab people's attention, I want to show them how we can move forward. What is one action we can take that you believe will move us forward?
Speaker 2:I would say one thing would be just standing up for marginalized people, marginalized communities Even if you are a part of a marginalized community, whether you are or not, like you know, you got to stand up for these folks who are, you know, systematic. They're being pushed down. It's very easy to kind of avoid it and act like it's not there. I live in Los Angeles. It's very easy to do that. In Los Angeles there's, you see, the beauty and the lavish lifestyles and all that on TV, but there's many parts of LA that are not that there's.
Speaker 2:There's, you know, entire communities in South LA that are that are totally, you know, in many ways they are there the result of, like, systemic oppression and racism, and it's easy for people to just like drive right past and act like it doesn't, they don't exist. You know Watts and you know all these different communities where it's like we got to, we got to fight for these people. You know they, they, they have worth, just like we have any. You know anybody else in the other community has worth and we got to, we got to stand up for them, and so I would say that that would be the one big thing.
Speaker 1:I think people have the hardest time with being an activist because you know there's like activist and then there's well. I'm, I'm only signing that petition or I only show up when we have a march and there is. I think there's just this real. I think people are worried to ever call themselves an activism, but if that keeps people from showing up, then do you feel like the inviting people to be activists is a way to help people cross that bridge to show up from our communities?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, maybe it's, maybe it's, you know, seeing yourself as an art of it. I don't know, like you, if you connected to you know some creative outlet that you have and I talked about in the book, like it's, it's, you know, it's not just painting, it's, you know, it's poetry, it's dance, it's film, it's whatever creative outlet that you have. Use that to there. There's tons of artists, literally illustrators.
Speaker 2:I would, you know, I was in the Disney circles for 11 years and I know tons of, you know, artists who devoted so much of their life to just making beautiful pieces of art that that people are captivated by.
Speaker 2:But they could also I try to encourage them also to, like, you know, take some time to make, make an art piece about this thing, this issue that can, like, help this community over here, because your art is beautiful and you can get like millions of eyeballs on it. So make something that will, that will kind of alert people and say, oh, I can, oh, I didn't know about that issue, I can, I would like to help, you know. So I think I think it, just it just it takes just a little tweak or a little shift for especially a lot of creatives who who do a lot of creative things and can just implement a little. You know, take a little bit of time to throw a little bit of sprinkle, a little activism on it and then, you know, make something that that can actually get people motivated to do some, make some sort of change.
Speaker 1:I think that's what we need. We need to be told.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because everybody is an activist, like we have that and we just have to show up and do it because, love.
Speaker 1:Love shows up and I was thinking about activist, just even the word, because that's like a dirty word in some circles and there's shade on it and other circles and then there's just like imposter syndrome on the other side, and then it's never enough and but I was thinking about it and everything that we love we actively show up for. Whether that's your relationship you actively show up for. If it's your kids, it's your job, and so I was like everybody believes. Activism is the litmus test for what we care about. That's the train you got to ride. So I love that your book is inviting people into a big word. That may feel like it's for special people and not kids or not anybody who doesn't have a bunch of Instagram followers. So thank you for even saying you can sprinkle little activism on what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you got to do it, Take some time, because it's like I don't know. Like it goes back to my upbringing and like being in school and having these textbooks that like they spend a lot of time crafting these heroes, and I learned a lot about Davey Crockett in the Alamo growing up and a lot of these things that were just like that wasn't really. These weren't really heroes, but why did we have to learn about all this stuff? But like, it's like that thing of like, you know, the thing that you spend your time on is that's what you love, and they spend a lot of time trying to craft this narrative for us to learn about. And I'm trying to just like kind of like level the playing field right now and, you know, make it more balanced, you know.
Speaker 1:I think you do it really really well. So before we wrap up, I want to ask you where can we buy your book and how can we bring art of ism to where we live and to the to the world?
Speaker 2:Yes, so the art of is is available everywhere. Books are sold anywhere Amazon, barnes and Noble, target, indie bookstores, all over the place, probably a lot of libraries so go get it. And it has also also for teachers. Like they, penguin has created an educator's guide for the classroom, so like that's really huge and it's it's. It's going to be out soon so you can like follow along.
Speaker 2:There's so many different like lesson plans and things that you can implement that are connected to the book, and I think that's that would be even you know, even if you're not a quote unquote teacher like that guide would be a great way to kind of help get going if you don't know where to start in terms of like, like training young art of is or even yourself is like going through this guide. It really breaks everything down. It helps learn about, helps you learn about like art of is throughout history, and that's a lot of a lot of. You know what I do is also like finding activists online. That's one easy way, just like there's tons of activists on social media. Find something that they are actively advocating for and make some art about that. Or, you know, like shine a light on all these different things, connect yourself to a cause like what is that cause? What is that thing that you wish you could fix in the world? That broken bone? Connect yourself to that. Make some art about that. What is that?
Speaker 1:I love it. And before we wrap up, I have some rapid fire questions for you. So this is a little bit of like a game show. You don't have to. It's whatever comes. There's only three and they're there Whatever comes out of your mouth, Nicholas, you got this.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:You're looking very apprehensive right now. They are purely for fun, and I also kick them around around our dinner table, which is hilarious, and it changes weekly. So first one is what's your purpose?
Speaker 2:My purpose? My purpose is to bring the world together through my art and inspire people to make a positive change in the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is Nicholas. How do you play?
Speaker 2:How do I play? I play with my three year old running around with excavators and monster trucks.
Speaker 1:That's how I play.
Speaker 2:That's how he plays, so that's how I play.
Speaker 1:Don't ever. Oh, the Lego stage you will love and it will kill you at the same time. They're so sharp. Last one, what is your superpower?
Speaker 2:My superpower is painting the soul of a person, getting people to see the soul of somebody else.
Speaker 1:Straight up that you know when someone says your purpose and you're like, yeah, but I see 27 more in you, but that that is wild Nicholas. That is exactly what is true that you're doing. So thank you so much for being here and for giving us your time, for letting us celebrate the artivist with you and teaching us with your story this was awesome.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'm so glad that we could do this. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Thank you.
